I watched most of Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines last night on television, weird considering that I own it on DVD and could have watched all of it including what I missed during my shower break without commercials. Tracey believes it to be a shared experience kind of thing, that popping in the DVD takes away from the communal sharing of the movie or television show. I’m happy to go with that.
A week or so ago I watched Terminator: Salvation and I just couldn’t make up my mind whether or not I liked it on any level, I know, as a Terminator film that I really disliked it. This kind of overshadowed what I could take away from the film as an action scifi piece. The stigma of being a Terminator film seemed like to much weight for the film to carry.
So it was with more of a curious mind that I found myself watching T3.
Terminator 3 has its share of problems, it has its share, your share and probably my share as well, it has a lot of problems. But then the film almost redeems itself for all of its problems with that last 15 minutes, when we see judgement day take place and John and Kate are tricked by the T101 (I’m so confused over the numbering system – I thought it was a T-800 but he very clearly says he is a T101) into going down into the bunker.
The acting in this scene is superb and like I said it really makes up for a lot of the stupidity of the rest of the film.
Is T3 really better than Terminator: Salvation?
Whoa now! Now did I say that?
Well, maybe it is.
You see for all of its flaws, T3 is a Terminator film and frankly I don’t think you can call Terminator: Salvation a Terminator film. You certainly can’t say that it is part of the series, maybe it is as some have been calling it a reboot?
If that’s the case then I would happily cut it some slack, maybe go back and watch it with less cautious eyes. But I’m not convinced this is the case.
Not that there isn’t stuff to like in Terminator: Salvation, the Sam Worthington character is really interesting, the Kyle Reese character (played by Chekov) likewise. The Arnold Terminator appearance is actually the absolute highlight of the film. But there are more problems than there is good.
Namely one Christian Bale as Connor.
Apparently in the future, if someone doesn’t listen to you yelling something the first time you just yell louder until they see your point.
“I need to go to HQ”
“Sorry dude but you’re pretty much no one so I can’t take you there”
“TAKE ME TO HEAD QUARTERS!”
“Ok.”
And here lies another problem, John Connor didn’t rise up to lead the resistance, he became some podcasting messiah guy (he’s not the messiah he’s just a very naughty boy, who happens to yell a lot). He’s not a great military leader, he’s not even in the loop, and it has to be said that Michael Ironside had a much nicer submarine when he was in SeaQuest.
The whole film feels like a cross between Transformers and the Matrix, but never a Terminator film and had John Connor survived judgement day by hiding in a lead lined fridge I would not have been surprised.
What did you guys think of Terminator: Salvation?
Related posts:
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
26 Responses to “Terminator Salvation vs Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines”
Leave a Reply
Think I will wait for it to come out on DVD, have not heard any great comments about it so far. T3 was a bit of a let down after the first two. The highlight being Arnie in those Elton John sunnies?
*edited on loopy17′s request
I think this film is probably well worth a DVD visit, if you regularly go to the cinema then sure check it out, but I wouldn’t make any special plans to go out of my way to see it (unfortunately to see films in the cinema now we have to go out of way a little).
LOL you actually mention one of the key let downs in T3, the self referring jokes that are constantly made, including the Elton sunnies gag.
I haven’t seen Salvation yet. I read so much crap about it I’m not sure I should even bother… I really don’t want to ruin my perception of the rest of the series with it.
Apart from that I felt second hand embarrassment with Christian Bale’s random yelling at the previews. I feel bad for him because he used to be rather good (American Psycho, The Machinist, Empire of the Sun) but clearly being Batman has gone to his head and his diva like behavior on set and the menacing Batman growling WHILE PLAYING JOHN CONNOR has turned me from a fan to a hater.
Thank you for making me laugh =)
You’re quite welcome Mars!
I’ve enjoyed Bale in pretty much everything else I’ve seen him in, but this is just a weirdly portrayed character and in my mind doesn’t fit the franchise.
I’ll be surprised if we see another but if we do I hope they bring it back in line although the rumours I hear sets in current London or something????
Actually I used to be a big Christian Bale fan and usually off screen antics don’t sway me one way or another. But the man is a diva who clearly has no respect for anyone he works with, either hurling insults at a crew member or demanding script rewrites that would have been downright stupid and painfully for fans of the series to watch (that “John Connor murders everyone” ending that Bale wanted for T4 to have made me want to throw a rock at him)
I get it, he was in The Dark Knight and is now hot property but I’d rather have Bale circa 2005 who I respected and admired. Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins had much more depth of character than in TDK and you have to admit Ledger stole the show in that one. I don’t know why but he’s alienating his own fanbase by being a diva and playing “Batman” in every single role he gets. I’d love to see him go back to independent stuff and prove himself as an actor instead of making blockbusters but hey he can do whatever he wants, just like *I* can do whatever I want and I chose not to pay to see him delivering monotone lines in a sucky film ;D
I really hope they don’t make a sequel. I know they’re milking the franchise for all it’s worth but some things should remain untouched. Hiring a hack like McG shows how little respect the movie execs have for something that shaped so many young persons view of cinema. I only saw T2 long after it was released (I was only 6 when it originally came out) but I remember being blown away and terrified by Arnie’s T-800 and saw an amazing role model in Sarah Connor (later ruined by Lena Headey’s Emo portrayal of the character… let’s face it Summer Glau was the only good thing about that show.) and I was rooting for John to become the man he was supposed to be through all of T3.
They should have kept Nick Stahl and Claire Danes instead of replacing them with “hotter” actors. Or just made Terminator: Salvation some sort of AU.
Bottom line is: even if it’s just a remake/reboot you don’t have to do it half-assed (I’m looking at you McG!) if anything JJ Abrams has proven that you can make a movie based on an established franchise that (most) old fans will enjoy and attract new ones while being relatively true to the source material.
I’ve got to say that I was really disappointed in the Sarah Connor Chronicles because of the change in the Sarah Connor character and in what episodes I actually saw the change in John as well.
Of course that being said I didn’t keep watching and I’m told by fans of the show that it gets better.
In all fairness to Nick Stahl but I would have liked to see Edward Furlong in T3, that kind of continuity would have been really appreciated.
T2 does stand as the best of the entire series, without a doubt.
As for Christian Bale, I’ll wait to see what he does next, but his next role has to be something different, even if I don’t like it, but we’ve got to see him act again rather than doing voice work!
I’m not even sure if I’ve seen T3 yet..(I really don’t know!). My holidays just started this weekend so I might catch up on movies a bit…
But I won’t check Salvation in the cinema, Transformers 2 is planned for next weekend and I really still need to see Startrek.
Arjan´s last blog ..Pinkpop (music festival)
Forget all the rest and check out Star Trek!
Really T3 is worth it just to see the ending, which as I wrote is really good. Even I who hated the first one so much might check out Transformers 2.
Wow… that’s some seriously bad reviews of T4. That is SO disappointing. Guess I’ll wait for DVD, but I hate missing all those special effects on the big screen.
Jeff´s last blog ..Doctor Who/Torchwood news
The special effects are pretty sweet, like I said if you regularly go to the cinema (I think you have child minding concerns though don’t you?) then this is fine for a pop corn flick, I think, it’s hard because I’m such a Terminator fan, it’s the same with Indiana Jones 4, maybe it’s a good film once you remove all the franchise expectations?
I tell you I would be the first one ready to rip this newest addition of the franchise..Though to me Cameron’s Films are the only Terminator movies..T3 made me sick. They changed lines from T2,..not just small lines, big have to do with the entire plot of T2, lines, all over..the jokes where ridiculous and stupid. ” Talk to the hand!” The only part of T3 that even entertained me was the crane sequence. But really it was just a tiny piece of an otherwise crappy script, big let down version, of a once heralded franchise. The ending I hated the first time I saw it..like it better now. Just tried to rewatch it last night..Remembered what I hated about it!
Now, that said. I went in to Salvation with no hopes at all, seeing as how T3 made me not want to even hear about a 4th. But got to admit I saw things in the trailers that harkened back to the Cameron story line that I couldn’t believe was written by the same writers of T3. So I decided to spend the 10 Bucks to see it in the Theatres. Now I’ll tell you, for the first five minutes..I was like ok..this one is going to be different..then BOOM.
One of the only ones in this group, that absolutely loved it, in fact I went with three huge Terminator fans that hated T3 as much as me…and we all came out saying the same thing. ” About time it fell fresh again. About time it didn’t feel like the same story retold over and over. Loved the Malcolm addition, loved the machines using him the way they did. Character! Malcolm was fantastic, Reese was great albeit he looked a bit younger than I would have expected Reese to be at that time. Fresh Machines, the Bikes, the Harvesters, the New Terminator, all were awesome. Way the hell better than that ridiculous Female Bot from T3! The story moved crisp, clean, liked them adding in the tapped Sarah Conner stuff. That was sweat. Like the confusion of Connor. Hell I liked the whole damn thing. So no complaints from this Terminator fan..shocking I know!
It had to me what the new Star Trek lacked, Character! Where was Kirk in the new Star Trek. Sorry but I didn’t see him at all. Spock was sorta there, Chekov and Doc were sorta there, Scottie, Hmmm..a bit closer, but the main thrust of the series..sorry Kirk was not Kirk. I don’t need Shatner by any means..but lets get some depth. He was too shallow to lead that movie. The scene with the like 8 year old kid driving the car off the cliff in the beginning, no suspension of disbelief there. Effects were great, story line was cool, but my kid and I walked out saying it was flat..no characters making you care about them at all. Nothing to push you in to jumping up when the Villain gets crushed.
I saw every Star Trek film in the Theatre with my Dad as a Kid and as I grew up decided to carry on the tradition with my thirteen year old. But even she said, that wasn’t Star Trek! It was a popcorn flick disguised as a Star Trek. All Trek films where about character, great stories, and then effects..not in reverse order.. This one was about a bunch of one dimensional characters that I didn’t care about at all. I’ll take Salvation any day over the new Trek, sorry J.J.! Huge Trekkie and this latest incarnation was just a popcorn flick, that’s it. Good for that, but not much more!
I have the complete opposite opinion there LOL, I felt that Star Trek was handled with respect towards the characters and that T4 was completely devoid of the Terminator soul (the only reason I feel closer to T3 than T4).
But I’m not one of those guys who hates on other people who dig stuff that I don’t so I’m really glad that you found T4 to be enjoyable, it was the same for me with the X-Files movie and Indy 4, completely hated it but there are good people out there who liked them, good people who’s opinions I respect. A lot of the time I go back and revisit these films to try and work it out and Terminator: Salvation will be the same (I’ll probably even buy it on DVD, sigh).
Thanks for stopping by!
There is no Terminator Movie after T2.
That is the end.
Respect.
Which did you hate, both X-Files and Indy or just one of them. I kind dug Indy for a couple of reasons. Mostly nostalgic. Loved seeing Indy back on the screen, had several well choreographed scenes, but as a whole I would say I would tie it with Temple. Not sure which of those I prefer. Though I miss the well written, character/action flicks of the 70′s, 80′s, and early 90′s. I see so much cardboard cut out characters nowadays. I wish they could combined great storytelling with Character and great FX more. Not just a couple of movies ( if that ) a year! With what can be done now in the world of CGI, imagine how great that would be!
X-files, that let me down real hard. That’s where I will leave that. Now I will say that maybe because of my love of and fond memories with my Father seeing every one of the original Trek films I had really high expectations, which could be partially why I thought it fell flat. Though I have seen many a review with the exact flaw I pointed out. Lots of action, great special effects, but where were the Characters? I have to say that I thought out of the Characters the one I liked the most, was the one played as close to the original than any of them. Bones hands down..Something about the guy who played Spock bothered me, can’t say what it was, think that he looked and acted too angry all of the time for a Vulcan. Though I know they were trying to use the tie in..that when he was younger he was battling his Human ( From his Mother ) and Vulcan ( Father) emotions.
I have read many reviews on Salvation that back you, then many that back me..so it’s kinda funny..LOL. Throws me off that so many see that the one point was the turning point on whether they liked it or not. Character. As well that so many saw Character and so many didn’t. POV is a quirky thing. I like the Trek as a separate reincarnation. Mostly because it was the most action packed Star Trek, since Wrath! Most of the reviewers who loved it, point that out over and over as the reason behind them tilting to the liked it side.
Probably one I’ll end up buying, because I liked it on its own, and have a chance to review and re judge it when it hits DVD. I hear there is a Tron remake, sequel coming soon. Let’s see what they do with that. That should give everyone something to talk about for a long while.
I actually really disliked both Indy and X-Files which was really hard because I wanted o like them so much.
I think in the Indy film there were definitely nostalgic parts that really hit home in a positive way but there were also a lot in the film that insulted me as a viewer. The aliens and stuff didn’t so much worry me, but things like the gophers, the inconsistent properties of the crystal skull and of course the worst thing, the fridge scene. I have a reasonably long list of grievances that I won’t go into here (although I may write up a new impression after watching it again). But it does come down to character though and I don’t feel that they treated the character with respect.
X-Files was a mess and like you that’s all I’m going to say on that until I watch it again – that being said it did have a really cool poster
I think for Terminator: Salvation it is more the John Connor character than anything else that didn’t sit well with me, the Marcus and Reese characters were a lot more interesting.
They can deviate a fair bit with Tron as I do love the film but am not THAT attached to it. – I hope they leave Last Starfighter alone!
Tron I just hope they do it justice. For what it was when it came out, WOW! Looking back on it, a little slower than I remember, but love the bikes, the disks, and the story line. Now here’s one for the laugh box today, just read they are remaking FOOTLOOSE! Holy Hell, what is the world coming to!
Because we know so much more about computers today it may run into some trouble however and this is a pretty big however, if the graphics are all as cool as the lightbike race we saw in the previews then I’m completely down with it! Also the storylines that’s I’ve heard floating around sound ok.
Footloose
They are remaking Red Dawn too – bah! so many remakes!?!?
By the way, should have seen the original script for Salvation, the team who shredded T3, put John Connor in the background completely..he was almost non existent. The 25-30 writers after them, once Bale was hired on..tried to flush out the Character..but there was nothing in the first place. That’s where it started. I think that is why i am not so upset at Bales, screaming, yelling, and grungy job during this last one. I felt that should not have tossed him aside and was happy they at least were able to bring him back a bit.
They wanted the whole story to revolve around Marcus, this is why he so dominates the screen and is probably the most fully fleshed out Character. I followed him and his story, that’s what I got into, the whole not knowing what you are, but fighting to be what you remember you were..dug that story line. In the original that was almost the entire story.
I’ve read that and you can see it in the film, the Connor character completely shoehorned in and then Bale does his thing and pushes it over the edge.
I would have been more than happy to focus on Marcus for a film, I also read about the stupid everybody dies ending that Bale wanted.
I also wish that they hadn’t given away the fact that Marcus was a Terminator in the trailers.
The total lack or originality now is overwhelming. So many remakes, reincarnations, just want to see this change. Now some of the remakes are ok, understandable, this could be done so much better now..type reasoning. But Land of the Lost? Footloose? These are the types that make ya cry. I’ve been waiting and actual wrote a remake for Tron, really based on the old script, updating certain things, Cell Phones, Lap Tops, Gaming Systems, so on..this is one that could really be done awesome if done right..kind of scared, but looking forward. I have read a couple of older drafts of the reincarnation of Tron and some looked cool, while others where not.
I’m really, REALLY happy that Jeff Bridges and Bruce Boxleitner are both back and I like what I’ve heard about Bridges’ character being some mythic character amongst hackers and fighting in some sort of virtual resistance.
For all its flaws, T3 is absolutely a better film (and a better Terminator film) than Salvation.
Rol´s last blog ..Bad Vibes
I can see Terminator fans all over the world polarizing
I enjoyed watching all the action scenes and explosions onscreen. it delivered, and by tht i mean, it got the post apocalyptic san fransisco and action sequences very well done.
but as u mentioned, as a terminator film, it had nothing.
of course, the odd references to the 2nd sequel was there to cheer me up once in a while.
like the gnr – you could be mine, track.
or the climax, skynet hq, which also has a fabrication plant with molten metal.
and yes, by the looks of it – it was almost like xion’s bots meets transformers.
@ kyle reese by chekov..hehe. we will never be over his funny accent.
btw, he is a great actor called anton yelchin.
he starred in a very awesome movie called charlie bartlett in 2007, which also had robert downey jr. watch it.
Sujoy´s last blog ..Ghar[1978]- The Movie and The Soundtrack
yeah, even with the references back to T2 (I don’t think there were any references to T3 except maybe the explosive power sources) it just din’t have the feel.
But I’ll still go back and watch again to work out some stuff, i wonder if anyone will do a John Connor free edit online